Tuesday, August 25, 2009

Response to comment posted re my June 12 posting on chosson and kallah classes

If you look at the 6/12/09 posting, you'll see a comment I just published from "anonymous" railing against the lack of God in this discussion.

Some comments in response to his/her remarks:

First of all, I LOVE that some people are getting so upset by what I'm writing.

Second, this writer is clearly very angry. S/he makes some good points about halacha and what God does or doesn't owe me. I don't disagree with anything s/he says. However, I can tell you all - with 100% certainty - that chosson and kallah classes are being taught incorrectly. The one specific point s/he argues is that oral sex on a woman is allowed. I'm not arguing that it's not. I'm saying that it's being TAUGHT that act is not allowed.

That is the entire point of this blog: to bring to light and discuss the sexual issues facing the orthodox community. It's not about what halacha in fact says or doesn't say. It's about how to make marriages work so people don't feel like they have to resort to dating sites, etc. (As an aside, I think most rabbis are fairly ignorant about halacha. Anyone at all can assur something.)

One final point. The anonymous poster calls me a "dude." Who says I'm a man?


  1. After reading your June 12th post, it sounds like you've either never attended chosson or kallah classes, or that your teachers were grossly negligent. Whatever the case is, you're simply misinformed about the Torah's ideals when it comes to sex and marriage. I consider my teacher to have been very much on the "ultra-orthodox" end of the spectrum, and procreation was important but was by definitely not the focus of discussion. The main point was about giving your spouse. By definition, masturbating is not an act of "giving."
    Getting into the specifics of what is and isn't allowed isn't really the main point, and I'm not an expert in halacha, so I don't feel that it's my place to tell you what is and isn't allowed, especially since it seems that you only want to know the halacha in order to find fault in it.
    I recommend the following article to gain a better perspective on what taught to men by competent "chosson teachers." http://bit.ly/84Ujlu
    As far as the 12 -14 days of nidah, something to keep in mind is that many if not most religious Jewish women (my wife, for example) are pregnant or nursing for a huge percentage of the time, making the nidah time very infrequent. Do the math... 10 months of pregnancy + 6 to 12 months of nursing comes out to close to 1.5 to years or so (excluding the 6 or so weeks after birth which the doctor tells you not to have during...) without nida. With your kids 2 years apart, that means that in 5 or so years your going to the mikva maybe a dozen times... maybe a little more or a little less, but for people who aren't on birth control, it's much less than 12 days a month.
    As far as what to do during those 12 days when they do happen, it's certainly difficult, but I really do feel it's beneficial to the relationship. For orthodox Jews who didn't touch their wives at all before marriage, it's often kind of a reliving of the dating process, which can be really fun if viewed properly, and then the sex on mikva night is like another honeymoon, but so much better your relationship is so much deeper than it was as newlyweds.
    Read this article http://bit.ly/6uwv2I.

    After you read the two articles I linked to, you'll have a better idea of what I was taught as the proper Jewish perspective on sex, and the way I feel about the time away from my wife.

  2. Thank you for responding. I appreciate the dialogue and I'm quite pleased to hear that you had "competent" Chosson Class teachers.

    The vast majority (based on my own anecdotal research) of young men and women getting married do not.